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i like how smartphones looked at the concept of package managers, which are (imo) the best way of installing software, and proceeded to fuck it up royally with app stores

all those calming blue colours. twitter, facebook, tumblr, skype... so many websites that work to capture your attention as much as possible use blue because it's a calm, sedating colour

...masto does too

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@lynnesbian And then proceeded to fuck up desktop systems with "stores"

@lynnesbian
I started learning linux, coming from windows, about two years before the first iphone. And the package managers blew my mind. That, and the paste-with-middle-mouse feature I knew I would never go back.

Then smartphones were being talked about more and more. It was hurting so bad hearing about how they, as you said, "proceeded to fuck it up royally".

@lynnesbian Just curious, how'd they fuck it up and how would you have not fucked it up (if you have any ideas, no worries if not)? 😊

@ahstro they fucked it up by:
- locking it to a single, closed source application
- encouraging a culture of embedded advertisements and in-app purchases (made slightly better by the recent google play updates that added small warning labels for apps that contain these)
- introducing the great idea of app permissions but doing it terribly by allowing only some permissions to be disabled (you're allowed to deny an app location access but not internet access)
- providing zero encouragement to make the provided apps open source
- requiring an apple/google/etc account to install even the free apps
- not even allowing custom repositories, meaning that you must abide by the google/apple/etc rules (and pay the fee, which repeats if you're an iOS dev)

etc

@lynnesbian @ahstro I can deny internet access to apps on my Android 8.1 device.
I specifically do that for the Google keyboard, because it's the only keyboard I can find that does what I want and doesn't suck, but I don't need it sending keylogger data to Google.
@lynnesbian @ahstro I mean not to defend android or anything but
that's a thing, at least in AOSP Extended (I think in mainline AOSP too, this isn't one of the extensions)

@diodelass @ahstro did they add that to 8? damn
i'm still on 7.1 but i'm getting a new phone soon, hopefully i'll be able to do that without using netguard

@diodelass @lynnesbian I read this and went "wait, what the fuck?" because I knew there was no toggle in the app permissions screen, but I didn't realize it's actually on a separate screen. Under "data usage", you can toggle Wi-Fi, mobile data, and background mobile data individually. TIL! That's so fucking useful, no idea when they added that or if I ever noticed it and just forgot.

@lynnesbian Oooh, damn, that sounds like shit. But, F-Droid? It passes pretty much all of that

@ahstro f-droid is a step in the right direction, but the UI is lacking compared to google play (and g-droid is missing features), and most importantly, it's not included with the phone. this means it suffers the same problem that chocolatey and scoop suffer from: because they're not the default way of doing things with the operating system, they're unsupported and will lack many programs. f-droid doesn't even allow you to do unattended updates iirc

@lynnesbian @ahstro f-droid can do unattended updates if you have the privileged extension installed, but you need root or at least a custom recovery to do that

@a_breakin_glass but cydia requires jailbreaking your iphone and apple reeeaaally hates it when you do that to the phone you purchased for over one thousand dollars and own

@lynnesbian my Chromebook has access to:

- Chrome Web Store
- Google Play Store
- apt

without installing a single third party program

@ben sounds like they've really turned it around from how crappy it used to be

@lynnesbian programs installed via apt still can't use GPU acceleration or audio but that's still miles ahead of where LXSS is.

@lynnesbian @a_breakin_glass ProGet already supports Chocolatey, but check out what I added for the next version:

@lynnesbian i wish package managers were commonplace and good with no ironic twist caused by this monkey's paw

@lynnesbian when's someone going to base a web design on soviet cockpit green

@rugk i left a reply to someone else's comment about this but tldr: no repos, no encouragement to make apps FLOSS, no resistance against advertisements, entry fee and (in apple's case) a yearly fee...

@uint8_t @rugk @lynnesbian you mean no management.
Software repositories are supposed to be fully tested, modified for the system if need be, theses?
Nah.

@lanodan @lynnesbian @rugk If you think about it, Android is really fucked up.

Go dig xda-dev for hours, read obscure posts, download a ROM from a one-click hoster as if it would be warez, flash it, lose all my settings and data, and then if I'm lucky, Linux 3.3 it came with is so old that it is not yet vulnerable to the latest attacks. I'm glad there's F-Droid, but it's not proper package management; can't update system components, etc.

@lanodan @lynnesbian @rugk But in the same timeline I can just grab a random piece of "PC" manufactured in the last 10 years, and there's a good chance that I can easily install and use Ubuntu or Arch or whatever Linux distro I please with the latest kernel and userland.

@uint8_t @rugk @lynnesbian Basically why I went ASAP to SailfishOS as a daily driver.
Non-PC has quite the limit on hardware portability tho so the shady ROMs part isn’t really solved.
And vendors are doing unreusable forks for the kernel instead of nice commits that could be merged into mainline with a bit of help/work.

@lanodan @lynnesbian @rugk Can you recommend a phone? I never bought a new smartphone, only second hand, partially because I'm poor, but more so because the vendors don't upstream their drivers.

Also I might try to get Sailfish run on my current phone, there's LineageOS for it so ...

@uint8_t @rugk @lynnesbian I have a OnePlus One here and it’s a bit old (~4 year) and nicely supported in many custom OS, so could be a nice one to get second hand.
Otherwise you can look at the table of device there: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris

(libhybris being used by mainly SailfishOS but Ubuntu Touch and Plasma Mobile are also using it, just do not build all the ROMs possible)

@lynnesbian good package managers require the body that administers it to care about something other than making money

@lynnesbian
I like how they decided to implement a package management system that only distributes statically linked binaries to low resource devices.

@lynnesbian There is something in the middle: self-contained apps downloaded from wherever (not app store), i.e. the old normal mac os way.

Package managers based on hierarchical trees of dependencies never offer a good user experience. One dodgy dependency is all it takes to ruin/compromise some app you need and it could regress at any time. Unmaintainable elegance imho.

Seems to work well enough on servers though in practice.

@lynnesbian Aren't most mobile apps in fact packages?

@lynnesbian

forreal, if I had to recommend linux to a non tech-y person, which I honestly wouldn't, but if I had to, one of the big selling points I would push is package management and how convenient it is

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